{"id":5590,"date":"2017-09-04T10:15:11","date_gmt":"2017-09-04T18:15:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/?p=5590"},"modified":"2017-09-04T10:15:11","modified_gmt":"2017-09-04T18:15:11","slug":"intervju-sa-danijem-vatimom","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/intervju-sa-danijem-vatimom\/","title":{"rendered":"Intervju sa \u0110anijem Vatimom"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Jer mi uop\u0161te nije bilo stalo da se naokolo sva\u0111am sa mojom sedamdesetogodi\u0161njom majkom, mojom sestrom i ostalom familijom. Kona\u010dno me je gej pokret Partito radicale, \u010diji sam nekad bio pristalica, bez mog znanja stavio na izbornu listu. Bio sam tada profesor i kada sam jednog jutra do\u0161ao na fakultet, svi su me \u010dudno gledali. Otvaram novine i vidim moje ime na listi gej pokreta.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>*Gospodine Vatima, sebe opisujete kao \u201epoluvernika&#8221;. \u0160ta podrazumevate pod tim?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>U starosnom dobu izme\u0111u petnaeste i dvadeset pete godine bio sam ube\u0111eni katolik. Onda sam po\u010deo da \u010ditam autore koji su bili protiv hri\u0161\u0107anstva i protiv moderne, pre svega Ni\u010dea i Hajdegera. Moj cilj kao filozofa se sadr\u017eao u tome da prona\u0111em poziciju koja je istovremeno trebalo da bude moderna i antiracionalisti\u010dka. Otkrio sam pritom koncept postmoderne, \u010dija se osnovna misao sastoji u tome da veliki metafizi\u010dki sistemi nisu odr\u017eivi. A upravo su ti sistemi odveli modernu filozofiju u ateizam. Stoga sam se pitao: postoje li uop\u0161te jo\u0161 uvek filozofski razlozi za ateizam? Moj odgovor je bio &#8211; ne.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*O kojim to sistemima govorite?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-5592 alignright\" src=\"http:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22018-09.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"544\" srcset=\"https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22018-09.jpg 400w, https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22018-09-221x300.jpg 221w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/>O nau\u010dnom pozitivizmu i o marksizmu. Prvi od tih metanarativa, kako ih Liotar (Lyotard) naziva, govori: istina le\u017ei u nauci, nauka ne poznaje nikakvog Boga, Bog dakle ne postoji. Za drugi metanarativ Bog je infatilna \u017eeljena predstava. Time \u0161to je postmodernizam razlo\u017eio te sisteme, istovremeno je razdrobio temelj ateizma. Otuda verujem da je vera u Boga filozofski ponovo mogu\u0107a \u2014 ali samo kada se ona sa svoje strane odrekne metafizi\u010dki poduprete doktrine. Tu poziciju ozna\u010davam kao poluverni\u010dku. Prili\u010dno sam ube\u0111en da \u017eivot nakon smrti ima smisla. U suprotnom svet ne bi bio ni\u0161ta drugo do gomila sme\u0107a, koje bi trebalo baciti.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Vi niste samo deklarisani poluvernik, nego i deklarisani homoseksualac. Ove godine je kardinal Racinger (sada\u0161nji papa Benedikt XVI, prim. prev.) homoseksualnost ozna\u010dio kao povredu \u201eprirodnog moralnog zakona&#8221;, pravno priznanje gej braka kao \u201ete\u0161ku nemoralnu praksu&#8221;. Odakle to neprijateljstvo prema gejevima u Rimokatoli\u010dkoj crkvi?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Najpre, Rimokatoli\u010dka crkva nema samo napet odnos prema homoseksualnosti, nego uop\u0161te prema seksualnosti. Poku\u0161aj da se seksualnost suzbije i da se erotske strasti zauzdaju ima veze sa dru\u0161tvenom i ekonomskom kontrolom i do izvesnog stepena se iza toga krije civilizacijski u\u010dinak. Kada primera radi ne bi bilo barem ni privida bra\u010dne vernosti, familija kao institucija verovatno ne bi pre\u017eivela, i sasvim je jasno da neko ne mo\u017ee ustajati u sedam i odlaziti na posao, po\u0161to se prethodne no\u0107i provodio u kakvom bordelu. Nenaklonost prema gejevima ima i istorijsku pozadinu. Putem homofobije je hri\u0161\u0107anska zajednica poku\u0161avala da se ogradi od gr\u010dko-rimske kulture, gde se istopolna ljubav tolerisala. Ili barem kod Grka, istini za volju. Rimljani su bili ve\u0107 neprijateljski nastojeni prema homoseksualcima.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Mo\u017eda je neprijateljstvo Rimokatoli\u010dke crkve prema homoseksualcima tako\u0111e poku\u0161aj da se proteraju sopstveni demoni.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>To je sasvim verovatno (smeh). Jedan crkveni ekspert koji radi za UNESCO, nedavno mi je rekao da su u poslednjih stotinu godina bila ta\u010dno dvojica heteroseksualnih papa: Jovan XXIII i ovaj sada\u0161nji (misli se na pokojnog papu Vojtilu, prim. prev). Svi drugi su bili, prema tom gospodinu, nedvosmisleno gejevi. To mi se \u010dini izuzetnim, ja sam na kraju krajeva nekada \u017eeleo da osnujem jedan red po imenu Opus Gay. U svakom slu\u010daju, Katoli\u010dka crkva, sa njenim tradicionalno neprijatnim dr\u017eanjem prema \u017eenama, naslanja se nu\u017eno na institucije koje su izuzetno mu\u0161ke i upravo stoga deluju privla\u010dno na homoseksualce. Osim toga, istorijski gledano, do\u0161lo je do paradoksa: crkva je doprinela tome da se homoseksualnost dru\u0161tveno tabuizira &#8211; ali upravo to ju je u\u010dinilo atraktivnom za gejeve, koji se zbog svojih seksualnih sklonosti u tzv. pristojnom dru\u0161tvu nisu mogli ostvariti.<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-5593 aligncenter\" src=\"http:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09r.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"810\" height=\"578\" srcset=\"https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09r.jpg 810w, https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09r-300x214.jpg 300w, https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09r-768x548.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 810px) 100vw, 810px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><strong>*Ali i druge totalitarne ideologije su neprijateljske prema gejevima, recimo komunizam ili tropski socijalizam a la Fidel Kastro. Da li je homofobija osobina diktatorskih re\u017eima?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Jedan diktatorski sistem se u osnovi bori protiv manjina, koje se organizuju ili od kojih se strepi da bi se mogle organizovati. Komunisti su verovatno iz tog razloga postupali protiv homoseksualaca, a ne toliko jer su se bunili protiv kr\u0161enja jednog tabua.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Vi se svrstavate u jednu filozofsko-religioznu tradiciju koja Va\u0161u seksualnost \u017eigo\u0161e kao neprirodnu. To je kao kad&#8230;<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&#8230;neko istovremeno instistira na punoj ba\u010dvi vina i jednoj pijanoj supruzi? Da, to mi ka\u017eu mnogi. Ali to da u crkvi postoje korumpirani elementi koji prete da je odvuku od njenih korena, nije izmislio Luter, nego je to istorijska konstanta. Ube\u0111en sam da upravo ja kao gej izvesna crkvena oko\u0161tavanja naro\u010dito jasno prime\u0107ujem. Te pape i episkopi se moraju svakog dana nogom u zadnjicu, i to upravo treba da radi vernik. Jer u slu\u010daju nekog izvana lako im pada da ka\u017eu: to je ateista pa ga ne moramo uop\u0161te ni uzimati ozbiljno. Ja sam slobodan, jer me je Bog svojom jevan\u0111eljskom re\u010di tako stvorio i stoga tako\u0111e branim u ime jevandelja svoju seksualnu slobodu. Antonio Gram\u0161i (Gramsci) je \u010dak pretpostavljao da su Isus i jevan\u0111elista Jovan imali homoerotsku vezu. Jevan\u0111elista Jovan je bio, kao \u0161to znamo, privla\u010dan mladi\u0107&#8230; \u0161to onda da ne? Ne idem tako daleko da podr\u017eavam ovo tvr\u0111enje, ali ne dr\u017eim ga ni na koji na\u010din za blasfemi\u010dno.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Papa zastupa seksualni moral koji nema ni\u0161ta zajedni\u010dko sa suvremenom \u017eivotnom realno\u0161\u0107u. Ipak je kod omladine omiljen. Za\u0161to?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Tokom svete gospodnje dve hiljadite godine, na velikom trgu u Rimu se okupila masa mladih ljudi da bi \u010dula papinu propoved i da bi aplaudirala njegovom pozivanju na devstvo. Drugog dana su \u010dista\u010di na\u0161li hiljade upotrebljenih kondoma. Hri\u0161\u0107anska zajednica ima jednu mudrost koja ne odgovara nu\u017eno onoj crkvene hijerarhije. Mehanizam ideologije uvek tako funkcioni\u0161e: idealizuju se one vrednosti koje ne \u017eele da se slede. Papa je jedan stari, bolesni \u010dovek, simpati\u010dna figura koja o\u010dinski deluje i pobu\u0111uje sa\u017ealjenje. I njegove zasluge za pad komunizma su neprikosnovene, \u0161to vodi tome da mu se druge stvari opra\u0161taju.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Razumete li za\u0161to on zabranjuje upotrebu kontraceptivnih sredstava?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-5594 alignleft\" src=\"http:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09uz.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"531\" srcset=\"https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09uz.jpg 400w, https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/art22017-09uz-226x300.jpg 226w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/>Jedini prakti\u010dno-racionalni razlog kojeg mogu sebi da predstavim je slede\u0107i: on kalkuli\u0161e da \u0107e Severna Amerika za nekoliko godina biti ve\u0107inski latino-katoli\u010dka, jer Latinosi imaju znatno ve\u0107i natalitet od protestanata. Mo\u017eda \u017eeli sa tom zabranom kontracepcije da podr\u017ei taj proces. Ina\u010de, to bi bilo \u010disto ludilo. Mo\u017eda ludilo krsta, ali ludo ostaje ludo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Va\u0161a homoseksualnost Vas nikada nije odvela u religiozni konflikt svesti?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Na po\u010detku me je neprijateljstvo crkve prema homoseskualcima iritiralo. Ali danas mislim da se neprijateljski raspolo\u017eeni crkveni dostojanstvenici mogu zbog mene obesiti, da to jednom delikatno izraze. (smeh) Uvek sam mislio da svako treba da ima svoju crkvu, kako bi je izdao. Onaj ko mo\u017ee da se usprotivi strukturi kao \u0161to je crkva ili familija, nalazi lak\u0161e jedan identitet nego onaj ko se potpuno slobodno ra\u0111a i kome vreba opasnost da se zarobi drogom, nekim guruom ili tako ne\u010dim sli\u010dnim. To je sli\u010dan efekat, kao onaj kojeg je veliki italijanski novinar Indro Montaneli (Montanelli) u vezi sa Berluskonijem opisao: mora se ne\u0161to strpljivo podnositi da bi se protiv toga pelcovalo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Gejevi u Zapadnom svetu ne trpe vi\u0161e represiju, upravo suprotno. Gej supkultura se slavi i komercijalizuje.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>To je jedan tipi\u010dni efekat manjine, uz moto: ho\u0107ete nas ru\u017ene, bi\u0107emo onda jo\u0161 ru\u017eniji. Ja sam isuvi\u0161e star i debeo da bih uzeo u\u010de\u0161\u0107a na gej prajdu, ali te manifestacije su sigurno doprinele tome da se dru\u0161tvo manje oko nas uzbu\u0111uje.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*Ako je homoseksualnost za Vas tako samorazumljiva, za\u0161to ste Va\u0161 coming out imali tek u poodmaklom dobu?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Jer mi uop\u0161te nije bilo stalo da se naokolo sva\u0111am sa mojom sedamdesetogodi\u0161njom majkom, mojom sestrom i ostalom familijom. Kona\u010dno me je gej pokret <em>Partito radicale<\/em>, \u010diji sam nekad bio pristalica, bez mog znanja stavio na izbornu listu. Bio sam tada profesor i kada sam jednog jutra do\u0161ao na fakultet, svi su me \u010dudno gledali. Otvaram novine i vidim moje ime na listi gej pokreta.<\/p>\n<p><strong>*I kakve su bile reakcije?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Najpre sam se pla\u0161io da me kao filozofa vi\u0161e ne\u0107e uzimati ozbiljno. Ali moj fakultet je hteo da se prika\u017ee kao progresivan, mada je ve\u0107ina njegovih \u010dlanova bila u\u017easno reakcionarna. Kasnije sam izabran \u010dak za predsednika. Italijansko dru\u0161tvo je prema stvarnim ili tobo\u017enjim prestupnicima oduvekbilo relativno trpeljivo. Nedavno je Emilio Kolombo (Colombo), jedan osamdesettrogodi\u0161nji senator i nekada\u0161nji demohri\u0161\u0107anski predsednik vlade i ministar spoljnih poslova, uhva\u0107en da \u0161mr\u010de kokain. Tvrdio je da to koristi godinu i po dana, i to iz terapeutskih razloga. U osamdeset tre\u0107oj godini! Kakva li je to terapija? U svakom slu\u010daju, niko se nije posebno zbog toga potresao. U izvesnim pogledima, Italija je jako prijatna zemlja.<\/p>\n<p><em>Iz: Die Weltwoche 51, 2003.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>QT magazin (1-2)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Izvor: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.xxzmagazin.com\/samorazumljiva-homoseksualnost\">XXZ magazin<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jer mi uop\u0161te nije bilo stalo da se naokolo sva\u0111am sa mojom sedamdesetogodi\u0161njom majkom, mojom sestrom i ostalom familijom. Kona\u010dno me je gej pokret Partito radicale, \u010diji sam nekad bio [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":5591,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[17],"tags":[52,45,295],"class_list":["post-5590","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-stav","tag-interview","tag-italija","tag-xxz-magazin"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Intervju sa \u0110anijem Vatimom - GayEcho<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/gayecho.com\/news\/intervju-sa-danijem-vatimom\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Intervju sa \u0110anijem Vatimom - GayEcho\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Jer mi uop\u0161te nije bilo stalo da se naokolo sva\u0111am sa mojom sedamdesetogodi\u0161njom majkom, mojom sestrom i ostalom familijom. 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